Talk:Inter-Stellar Alliance
Added UCP to the members list. I don't really see a point for them not to exist in this alliance as they are already allied with the Gigerdians and desire to seek any paths leading to peace.
--Mad Gigerdi 2 19:12, 25 Aug 2009 (EEST)
uhhh ...
weren't the UCP closely allied with the IPA which was anti-ISA? I mean you have Operation Sundevil with UCP forces actually engaged in a shooting war against ISA forces which doesn't make a lick of sense if they were allied. I thought that was the whole thing with the ISA, it developed into a kind of a conservative opposition to the more radical IPA/DHR/FOA alternative axis that emerged after the Lightness War, in short the Intergalactic Alliance. again from a purely storytelling point of view it makes for more political intrigue that way and the UCP has simply never been mentioned as being in the ISA. so voting against this
for a real life comparison I see the ISA as a kind of NATO, and the UCP is more like the European Union or something, with political divisions within it. there's a historical pro-NATO state majority in the EU (unfortunately) but the EU itself is not officially a "member of NATO" much like the UCP shouldn't be a "member of ISA". similarly, the ISA claims to be a "path leading to peace" and a "defensive alliance" but is actually actively attacking newly formed governments like the IPA and the DHR and is in fact an offensive military pact. So much like NATO, the ISA is not a peace organization.
- Shok 46 05:10, 27 Aug 2009 (EEST)
oh and
looking at the article it already mentions the Intergalactic Alliance is "officially" allied with the ISA which is obviously more of a post-Beta Quadrant Conflict political stunt (like Russia offering to join Nato) than an actual alliance. the IGA includes the UCP within it so this debate is moot
- Shok 46 05:23, 27 Aug 2009 (EEST)
The operation things will be rewritten. UCP will not take any part of the war, they will condemn GA's actions though, but will offer medical aid to both sides as well as take any possible refugees. Folans and Vemrers also won't take part in the conflict and first ones most likely won't either.
IPA was never anti-ISA, it was anti-GA. It was mostly internal GA affair as those colonies broke away from the GA, similar to the GF/GC thing. IGA may not be ever created either.
Whatever happens to ISA, IGA and the conflict, UCP will not be involved in the fighting, as they are allied with the GA.
--Mad Gigerdi 2 22:10, 27 Aug 2009 (EEST)
anti anti
I guess they remained neutral then? being anti-GA but pro-ISA is like being anti-USA but pro-Nato, pretty contradictory. GA and the bacterians were the primary forces behind the whole thing. Also it's truly a shame to see the work in the beta quadrant conflict articles go to waste, they're some of our best.
- Shok 46 10:08, 29 Aug 2009 (EEST)
I don't advise on writing much of the post-PS articles yet as they are subject to change.
UCP does remain neutral yes, only providing humanitarian/gigerditarian aid. I'm not sure were you referring to the UCP or IPA with the anti-GA thing, but UCP at least isn't anti-GA, they just don't like the choice that GA takes, but they are pro-ISA because that's how the UCP itself got formed, through a NATO-like military alliance. It has the potential in becoming the next type of UCP, a much larger one though. Though I'm not sure why the ISA gets involved in the conflict, as it's an internal matter and I'm not sure how Gigerdians would react with having Bacterians shooting down their ships again. If the other races would get involved too then I'd understand it, but now that probably won't happen.
IPA is hostile towards the GA as they are the ones that abandoned them and later attacked. It's a lot like repeating the past. Guess Gigerdians failed to learn history and forced to repeat it.
--Mad Gigerdi 2 12:41, 29 Aug 2009 (EEST)
Also.
Also, some time ago we discussed a possibility, that if the UCP government decided to side with the IPA (despite a strong alliance&partnership with the GA) during the conflict, there would have been some sort of a "Lapin Sota"-style secret agreement between UCP's and GA's militaries on mutual sharing of intelligence, fleet movements and so on. Afterall, during the war in Lapland there were rumours that the German and Finnish forces had an agreement starting from the highest levels of command regarding a "staged war" that was to be held in order to make the Soviet Union believe that the Finns were doing something tremendous to drive out the Germans and thus keep their part of the peace treaty's terms.
So you know, perhaps the UCP military could've had a secret agreement with the GA military to just "play war" and make it seem like hostalities were ongoing in order to please the politicians, or something.
And naturally this little theory was just something we discussed. It is heavily subject to change, and has probably changed already. Although, I guess we haven't officially decided on what to do about the GA-IPA Conflict.
--Dalleer 15:07, 29 Aug 2009 (EEST)
the conflict
I'm not sure if you've forgotten or rewritten the entire conflict but other races did get involved, it was a major thing exactly because the gigerdians asked for bacterian assistance in the conflict, citing the ISA treaty, as a kind of a show of force to keep other dissident states like the IPA from forming. This is also why the hemmoian federation sent fleets there, in part because of the ISA treaty and in part because they knew DHR and other independents were friendly with IPA.
in the original story (I still have the HCNF articles) almost every faction ended up with some involvement in it, which was cool because it was a relatively small conflict but the political aspect of it was far-reaching and set the stage for a new multipolar galactic political scene. It was also a nice thematic shift because it made the "good guys" from the main peace station story the bad guys or at least very morally ambiguous. This doesn't really happen if everyone loves the ISA and conveniently forgets about the conflict.
- Shok 46 20:34, 29 Aug 2009 (EEST)
Explanations
I think the thing mentioned by Dalleer, which I guess you didn't comment on (?), is one way to handle UCP involvement, which I personally at least like. A "political play" like that would be kinda interesting. However, it's probably for the best for the Folans to stay away as it's kinda of a waste for them to participate. Obviously they want the conflict to occur as it strengthens them, but it's just a waste of resources on their part. I'm not sure about Vemrers though, dunno what's in it for them. I guess the "first ones", ancient ones, whatever, want to protect the independence of the IPA.
There was a lot of wrong with the original version. There has to be some problems between the BE and GA too. After all, they had a war just a few years ago. First you're hunting for people who have committed genocide and then you suddenly are friends with them, in just a few years? Unlikely. Of course TPTB probably want to get the aid of the BE, but the military would probably object.
--Mad Gigerdi 2 20:55, 29 Aug 2009 (EEST)
GA-BE relations
you're forgetting this isn't after the second bacterian war, it's after the third war when the GA occupied Bacterius and practically crippled the Empire, with huge swathes of former imperial territory annexed by GA and HFed. The ISA was a Bacterian initiative technically for situations like the Lightness War but the empire's decline was probably forcing their hand more. The bacterian empire of that era simply was an entirely different entity from the genocidal, immensely powerful empire it was during the peace station era. There probably was bad blood on both sides but I doubt the GAM would somehow object to assistance under a very clearly defined military alliance. The bacterians were no longer a viable threat; the IPA on the other hand was. Military thinking is all about practicality.
As for the UCP having some sort of a secret deal with GA, that's all well and good I guess. But it means they can't be very closely allied with the IPA if they aren't willing to actually defend them ...
- Shok 46 16:30, 30 Aug 2009 (EEST)
